Prem ranking points at Llangollen Prem/Open

boatmum · Post by **boatmum** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:41 am

Can someone help with some math / technical; input please

I thought the Prem ranking points were earned just on the runs/heats on Saturday?? Not at the semis or finals on the Sunday??

If I understood correctly then I think some of the K1 womens points need another look at?? If I'm wrong then all is OK (I think)

Many thanks

JaneS · Post by **JaneS** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:54 am

Hi, the Prem event was Championship Format so qualification on Sat, SF and F on Sunday.

boatmum · Post by **boatmum** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:01 pm

Yep knew that but for those of us who are new to this game - what does that mean in terms of points?

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:10 pm

The points for those who got through to the final will have been decided at the final, those in the semi-final will have had theirs decided then and those that didn't qualify will have had theirs decided on the Saturday.

So (roughly speaking as a demonstration) -

Winner of the final - 100 points
Highest person who didn't qualify for final - 80 points
Highest personn that didn't qualify for semi-final - 60 points

If you want to see it in action (before the Town Falls results are issued) look at the McConkey results as that was a similar format.

biker01 · Post by **biker01** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:57 pm

Munchkin is correct, and the McConkey results from HPP make it clear as to how it works.

The only exception is for those world ranking paddlers who paddled in the final, but only on the basis that they were classified as world ranking e.g, they missed the cut on Saturday or in the semi-finals. For those premier paddlers, they received points based upon the round they qualified up to. For example, there were two K1W who missed the cut in the semi finals, but paddled in the final, their premier points were based upon reaching the semi-final, not the final.

boatmum · Post by **boatmum** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:22 pm

Blimey!

OK I need to go away and think about it - but many thanks. But just so I'm clear, had the Town falls Prem/Div 1 race gone ahead, there would have been no ranking points from the Open ?

Is that right?

Many thanks for helping!

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:32 pm

Correct.

boatmum · Post by **boatmum** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:03 pm

Thank you!

My learning module is now complete ... well on this subject anyway

Again many thanks for your patience everyone

New but old · Post by **New but old** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:44 pm

Right I follow all that - can someone explain the C1W event where the points appear to have been allocated on the Saturday heat run?

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:28 pm

Basically (!!!) if the times the C1W got in the qualifiers would not have been fast enough (after the multiplier of 1.08 had been taken into account) to have qualified in the K1M
Then they would have got the points decided in the qualifiers even though they got through to the semi finals in the C1W because of the low numbers.

For example -

Lowest qualifying K1M gets 100 seconds, highest placed C1W gets 101 seconds - C1W points determined in the qualifiers.

Lowest qualifying K1M gets 100 seconds, highest C1W gets 99 seconds - points determined in the semi-final/ final (depending on whether they "qualify" for the final).

Hope that helps and is right!

New but old · Post by **New but old** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:33 pm

Thanks Munchkin - it just seems a strange way of doing things. Surely if you are the only competitor you are still 1st and deserve to get the points for reaching that final. It is hardly your fault that others do not pitch up for whatever reason - there would appear to be a lot of scope for looking at these rules; I suspect some people have only entered events where they knew the points were safe ie Div 1s. It does not appear to be a "level playing field".
Is it easier to get points at a Div1 than a Prem event - since the comparison is with K1M, by dint of it all they must be inferior to Prem men.

Mark Shaw · Post by **Mark Shaw** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:06 pm

We have two types of Prem races - Classic and Championship format. I think it is fair to say that you shouldn't be awarded a different set of points based on a typical performance purely because of the format of the race.

In classic format races, a C1 woman's result is directly compared to the K1 men's results following the 1.08 adjustment. As the factor is so low, C1 women currently rarely achieve much more than minimal points from the race. Hence why there is a proposal to change the factor used at this year's ACM. The 1.08 factor was a good starting point but it was always expected that it would need to change once we had some real results to compare against.

Now in championship format, all of a sudden this same performance that usually achieves minimal results suddenly could achieve significantly better results purely because of the lack of paddlers racing at a high level. Is this a fair comparison of performance against the classic format races?

Obviously not. It would effectively result in one or more weighted races that would slew the whole results for the year in favour of these championship format races entirely. This obviously isn't right and therefore why it was deemed that qualification should apply equally to C1 women so that if you had earned your place in the semi-final/final then you would get the points due to you.

If the ACM proposal is accepted to change the factor for next year (factors of both 1.2 & 1.25 have been suggested) then this will make both Classic & Championship format Prem races worth attending as far as C1 women are concerned and will therefore reward these paddlers more fairly. However, I still believe we need to keep the same rule regarding qualification in championship format races.

I hope the above makes sense and everyone can see the logic behind it.

Mark

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:51 pm

Thanks Mark, I was wondering how to explain that one!