Benefit of Doubt?

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:44 pm

Can anyone confirm what the criteria is for Benefit of Doubt (apart from what is written in the rules)?

And should it not always favour the paddler or is that a myth?

Discuss

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:35 pm

Didn't CP give a summary in the other thread? What he said made sense to me...

It seems that each judge is required to give BOD to the paddler IF the judge is unsure BUT if the judges disagree then the one with the best view etc is given more weight and BOD does not play a part. It is not automatically the case that BOD should apply because the judges do not agree.

For example, at Cardington I started watching the next paddler come down the course a bit too early and missed a VERY obvious wack of the pole by the original paddler exiting the last gate in my section. I had to give the paddler BOD as I did not actually see them hit the pole (even though the next judge down did!). If there had been a section judge there and they had seen the hit we would not have agreed and the section judges view would have been the right one.

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:13 am

426 reads and 1 comment!

Can no one come up with the black and white answer 'what the criteria is for Benefit of Doubt' I am guessing not, which does not surprise me, I could quote the judicial legal version, but I am sure that some one could do it for me?

If there is a discrepancy between two judges then the paddler should get the "Benefit of Doubt" YES or NO?

Anne · Post by **Anne** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:43 am

Actually I think it has been answered clearly previously. Benifit of doubt is NOT automatically given if the 2 judges give differing penalties.

Benifit of doubt is for each individual judge - if a judge cannot be absolutely sure of a penalty. benifit of doubt should be given, however if one judge gives no penalty, or a lower penalty, and another clearly saw a penalty because of a better view the penalty must stand.

Nick Penfold · Post by **Nick Penfold** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:30 pm

"If there is a discrepancy between two judges then the paddler should get the "Benefit of Doubt" YES or NO?"
Not automatically. It's for the jury to decide.
If (as at a Div 2, 4 or 4) there is only one judge on a section, he/she should give benefit of doubt if he/she's not sure. If (as at a Prem or a Div 1) there are two or more judges and what they report differs, the jury has to decide which judge had the better view - how near, which side etc.
If a difference always meant BOD we'd be giving BOD when the judge right on top of the gate saw the touch and the one 15 or 20 yards away missed it.

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:56 pm

No comment as I had already tried to answer this. Sorry if it was no clear enough.

The 'which judge has best view' applies internationally as well. Judging at Brats I had one russian judge 5 yards from gate 8, who saw a slight touch, so did I, 3 yards downstream on the same side of the river and the slovaikan a further yard down on the opposite bank also gave a 2.
The Chinese judge, positioned at the other end of the section did not see the slight touch (from 25 yards away!) so gave BOD and clear.

What penalty do you think should be reported Geebs? Clear as we did not all agree or a touch from all judges within 5 yards? of the gate?

I gave a penalty for those who did not follow the earlier postings, and will defend that position if anyone wants to discuss on the river bank.

But I will probbly not be at HPP tomorrow as I have a cough, shivers and a blocked nose. If it stays tomorrow I wll rub on oinkment, and hope it is not MCP flu. (actually I feel much better tonight than I did last nightg so may still get there, just do not tell my widde I am considering it)

Nick Penfold · Post by **Nick Penfold** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:20 pm

Or again: if we took disagreement between judges as "doubt" , then the more judges on a section the more likely it would be that one would disagree with the others. So the more judges, the more likely is BOD. How sensible it that?

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:34 pm

Just realised all exaples are where BOD has not been given. Same situation as before, same race, judge above gate gave a 2 bow, bottom pole, judge most distant gave a 2, two judges jus below teh gate thought water touch.
Overall disagreemnt, BUT those best placed gave BOD so BOD was given.

So have we provided sufficient answers? ???