Veteran working party - Suggestions ?

katonas · Post by **katonas** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:05 am

Marathon racers split classes into 5 yr groups starting at 30.Gyor2007 results
The trouble is there aren't enough greying slalom paddlers to make lots of age categories competitive.
To my mind the best awards I have come across are the Stone mugs - useful/ specific to canoeing / amusing artwork...
Some paddlers at LLandysul received a wooden paddle which looked amazing but must have been a bit expensive. Perhaps the cheapest option for organisers would be something like
50p badges .com
You can put on your own artwork
Judging by my own results, the only award I'll ever be chasing is that of avoiding demotion.

Phil Stevo · Post by **Phil Stevo** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:24 pm

As I'm on the working party I've taken the opportunity to talk to vets at Bala Prem/1 and Tully 1/2. Of the people I've talked to so far the collective views are:

- Encouraging paddlers to keep/return to competition can only be good for the sport

- 35 is still a bit young to be a vet

- Paddlers not to fussed about trophies at each race except for best overall vet

- Prem/1 purple bib competition has collapsed

- Div 2/3 purple bib vets still a merry band

- Change the name to Masters

- End of season recognition for the top 3 in each age band

- Introduce the vet bands into Pan Celtics

- Introduce vets category into Inter-regionals

The last three on the list are intended to make vets more meaningful that would encourage more people to pick up their paddles again ..... bring their kids along ..... bring their kids friends along etc.

Also there are a number of us planning to go to the Senior (vets) European Cup in Czech Rep in June. This seems to be causing some excitement and extra training activity. If this is going to continue to be popular perhaps we should re-structure in line with the continental set up?

There was also a suggestion that the UK should run the Worlds Masters Championship next year at Tully or Washburn. Now that would temp some back I'm sure!!!

Will continue to bankside conferences this weekend at the Tully Prem double.

PaulBolton · Post by **PaulBolton** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:06 pm

Everything Phil lists gets my full support. All seem really good, well thought out proposals.

Cheers,

PB

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:51 am

Phil Stevo wrote:1. End of season recognition for the top 3 in each age band

2. Also there are a number of us planning to go to the Senior (vets) European Cup in Czech Rep in June.

3. There was also a suggestion that the UK should run the Worlds Masters Championship next year at Tully or Washburn.

4. Will continue to bankside conferences this weekend at the Tully Prem double.

Hi Phil. Sounds about right. But I do not know who you are and I do not think we have spoken/met? I refer below to some of your points as I have numbered them above:-

1. Each age band? Ok, I mentioned age bands previously but did not know anyone involved with the working party was thinking along the same lines. So what age bands do you mean please?

2. I do not know anything about this so any details you have would be gratefully received.

3. Tully or Washburn? Whilst I am delighted to see that HPP is not the obvious choice, did anyone suggest any of the Tryweryn sites?

4. I will not be at Tully so do you propose to continue discussions at other events? I would be very pleased to put my two penneth into a verbal discussion at some point if possible.

Many thanks

PP

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:01 am

Just thought I would look at the Vets ranking list on this website and sadly discovered that this seems to be the only class that is not here

Prem, 1, 2, 3, C2's, J12, J14, J16 & J18 and........???

Evidently Phils description of "collapsed" seems accurate

This may be something for Nick P to comment on (hi again Nick!) but is this simply because nobody is passing onto you the results/rankings for Vets? I seem to recall being the one who sent you the Vets results in 2003/4 but I do not know who did this, if anyone, since I stopped paddling at the end of 2004. I am happy to assist with this again as and when the whole messy thing is rejigged if someone is needed for this. Just yell

jke · Post by **jke** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:18 pm

Commenting on Phil Stevo’s list of views:

35 a bit young.
Maybe. I’m not that bothered at what point the category starts as long as it starts sometime. What’s more important, and was implied only, is the grouping or banding. In other sports I’ve taken part in the banding has been every 10 years or even 5 years. For slalom 10 years is probably right. And in the Start / Results put M40, W40, M50 etc. instead of DV.

Trophies or prizes.
Not necessary for ordinary events. Just recognition at the prizegiving is good enough. Certainly don’t go over the top. Have trophies or prizes for each age group at national champs etc.

Change name to Masters.
Irrelevant. Name not needed if you just call the bands M40, W40 etc.

End of season recognition.
Banding / age category listed in the ranking.

Veterans versus DV.
What really is the point of having both DV and Vets? The Yearbook shows there were 6 in P/1 Mens Veterans last year and I hear some of those are moving to DV. In 2/3 there were 13 but of the Div 2 events I’ve been to there have been 2 possibly 3 competitors at each. What is the point? Reasons for Veterans include not wanting to get promoted, and protection from demotion. Really. I’m sure most P/1 Vets could hold their own at least in Div 1, so we are doing all this for a very small number.

Encouragement.
Vets banding at the championship events will encourage those at the top of their age group. In terms of encouraging more people to pick up their paddles again (and promoting the sport generally), the effort should be in getting more people into the sport at the bottom.

John Kent

jke · Post by **jke** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:25 pm

Picking up on the point that, without the Vets class, some will not be able to paddle the harder water, maybe John Sturgess was right when he has promoted open entry. But that I think is a separate issue, not solely for Vets.

And allied to that, at what division people are allowed or can opt to start in.

John Kent

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:57 am

In reply to Spiderman's quetsion about the web site, In the
topic "Vets Leagues" on Posted: Nov. 12 2007,21:48 Nick posted

Ah, right guys. It's me that works out the junior leagues. I'm pleased they are popular, but it's quite a slog so no, I won't take it on for Vets. Any of you volunteering?
I did it to motivate young, hopefully developing paddlers who are among the best in their age group in the country and deserve to be proud of it, but struggle in the overall rankings against older, bigger paddlers.
You older guys really don't need that. Oh, and not everyone particularly wants their age made public

I think Nick already does a heck of a lot getting the web site up to date and producing all the rankings, so anyone who wants a vet league on the web, and willing to volunteer? ???

NKcanoe · Post by **NKcanoe** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:30 am

I emailed NP the Vets Ranking Lists for the last few years, and he did put it on the site.

Spiderman
I can do it again this year if I get all the Vets results.
Should not be too hard with soo few Vet paddlers now!

Nick K

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:53 am

NKcanoe wrote:I emailed NP the Vets Ranking Lists for the last few years, and he did put it on the site.

Spiderman
I can do it again this year if I get all the Vets results.
Should not be too hard with soo few Vet paddlers now!

Nick K

Thanks for that post CP. I agree that Nick P does plenty here already of course. But it is really only worth anyone doing it if there is enough competition of course.

Hi Nick. Should not be too hard at all for Prem/Div 1 as I seem to be the only competitor! In which case its a waste of time. Stick to using the time on the water because my plan this season is to beat you of course

Where did you finish in Div 1 these last two weekends mate? Top 20? Top 10 maybe? I am looking forward to going through the result sheet to see who did what

NKcanoe · Post by **NKcanoe** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 pm

Hi PP

13th @ Tully Div1.
Hope to win one this year. Fancy a bet?
You'll need to train hard to beat me this year !!
Going to Graveyard then HPP

Looks like I'll have to give you the Vets Trophey this year.
Will I get in Engraved before I give it to you?

Nick K

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:16 pm

Hi Nick, We seem to be hijacking this topic with of-topic material so I will PM you!

Phil Stevo · Post by **Phil Stevo** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:30 pm

In response to Spiderman

Most people I've spoken to are going for 10 year bands for slalom. The decision is whether to start at 35 or 40.

The details of the European(Vets) Senior Cup are on the homepage of this website, posted by Jim Croft.

The Tully/Washburn thinking for a possible Vets World Champs was to ensure the water is managable for all the age bands

I will look out for you if you are going to Graveyard.

Cheers

Phil

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:47 am

Ok Phil, thanks for that

Yes, I plan on competing at The Graveyard so hope to catch up with you there. Maybe we Vets should all go for some pasta at the Italian place in Bala on Saturday night? Just a thought

Phil Stevo · Post by **Phil Stevo** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:00 pm

A vets get together in Bala on the Saturday night of the Graveyard sounds good to me ........ so if you are taking bookings we'll have a couple of seats please.

Another suggestion that came in from Phil Gooding on making vets more meaningful, is to introduce the age bands (whatever they end up being) at the British Open. This would give a one off championship as well as the overall yearly rankings. I know there is already the vets champs linked in with the junior champs (Cardington this year) but it doesn't seem to attract many of the top end vets.