MASTERS LEAGUE - THE NATIONAL LEAGUE TABLE FOR THE 35+

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:45 am

OK, a few people are now messaging me with their DoB but not everyone. Also, Im still missing ALL of Div 3!! Help! Bib Officer for Div 3 anyone?

PP

jim croft · Post by **jim croft** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:22 am

:p Peter
It,s not the Bib Officer its the Div 3 Ranking Officer details on page 16 in the 2009 Yearbook Scaife Mrs P.
Jim

jim croft · Post by **jim croft** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:21 am

:p Peter
The Ranking compiler for Div 3 Ladies is Mike Carter, Div 3 C1 is Les Milam, don't email or phone Les as his email address & Phone number has changed.
Jim

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:09 am

But can Penny, Mike and Les release the DOBs that was not the reason they were collected and the information czar may be unhappy!

on teh other hand, publicising the vets league at lower division events may help.

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:39 pm

Ah! Just stumbled upon these replies to my previous posts! Apologies for the delay. Many thanks for this Jim, will follow that up. I thought it was the Bib Officer as I thought they had all the bib application forms with the DOB info on. Maybe that was too obvious to be true?

CP....if the DOB was not obtained on the Bib application form for this purpose (ie to identify peoples ages to place them in the relevant age category) why is it requested at all? Furthermore, there was an opt in, opt out part that should overcome any data issue concerns. Or did I miss something?

PP

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:30 pm

Spiderman wrote:This is an interesting observation. However, I read it as over 34 (ie 35) on (or after as it says for all the J12's to J18's) the 1st Jan that year. If this is correct it might have been helpful if it read "35th Birthday on or after 1st January".

So, maybe the following is correct? :-

M35 - 35th to 39th Birthday on or after 1st January
M40 - 40th to 44th Birthday on or after 1st January
M45 - 45th to 49th Birthday on or after 1st January
M50 - 50th to 54th Birthday on or after 1st January
M55 - 55th to 59th Birthday on or after 1st January
M60 - 60th to 64th Birthday on or after 1st January

Hows that?

Oh deary me! None of us smarty pants here, not even smarty pants ME, spotted the error in the 2009 wording of the qualification for Vets in the Yearbook. NP has mentioned to me that Mike carter at Viking has noted that the current wording means only people who become 35 in the current year are actually considered to be Vets! Oops! I read it a couple of times and it seems he is right. This has caused me to re-read my previous post as quoted here regarding the qualification for the Masters bands. Fortunately, because these have an upper and lower limit the only thing that is required after the ".....Birthday on or after 1st January" is "in the current year.

Accordingly, I suggest a revision of the Bands as follows:-

M35 - 35th to 39th Birthday on or after 1st January in the current year.
M40 - 40th to 44th Birthday on or after 1st January in the current year.
M45 - 45th to 49th Birthday on or after 1st January in the current year.
M50 - 50th to 54th Birthday on or after 1st January in the current year.
M55 - 55th to 59th Birthday on or after 1st January in the current year.
M60 - 60th to 64th Birthday on or after 1st January in the current year.
Etc.

My clever wife has suggested that the wording for Veterans should be "Any competitor over 35 or whose 35th birthday is on or after 1st January in the year concerned". And I think she is right!

But with any good fortune the Vets and DV's will be scrapped anyway and this topic relates to the suggested Masters League of course so please do not hijack it! Well, not too much anyway!

PP

djberriman · Post by **djberriman** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:17 pm

Just subtract their year of birth from the current year - it works for Juniors too, I've already suggested it to Jim as an amendment to prevent confusion in junior classes.

2009 - 1966 = 43, thus an M40
2009 - 1964 = 45, thus an M45

works regardless of DOB (cheers Trudi and Start).

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:50 pm

It may well do but it still needs more than that for the wording in the Rules. Not sure if math is allowed in rules lol

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:11 pm

Sorry Spidey but there is a hole in teh wifey wording. Think of an 18 ear old, their 35th birthday is on or after the 1st January tis year.

Arent we approaching it from the wrong end, juniorshave to eb over an age, vets have to be under. Is this OK?
M35 having a 35th birthday on or before 31st December in the year concerned
M40 having a 40th birthday on or before 31st December in the year concerned
M45 having a 45th birthday on or before 31st December in the year concerned
M50 having a 50th birthday on or before 31st December in the year concerned

This also allows an M50 to be win the M35 if they are good enough, just as a J16 can win the J18

Or have I missed something?

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:01 am

Dangerous territory CP! She may be from another country but she is better at English than most English people I know! lol. I think she is still right as you are overlooking " in the year concerned" which means an 18yr olds 35th birthday is not on or after the 1st Jan

Indeed...this is why i have added the same words to the Master age bands

Regarding the "end of approach" lol, yes it is possible we are, but providing the age of paddlers is in the correct band I do not see that it matters too much. As for older Masters winning a younger Masters class, that is not really what the Masters is about anymore than it is what the Juniors is about. It is to get similar age paddlers competing against one another in fairness. The wording needs to include only those in the Band and exclude all others. Your wording allows older competitors to be in ALL the bands below. In the Juniors, the wording also prevents this. Accordingly, my proposed single line wording for the Masters thus far does not include nor allow for older Masters taking points or wins or titles from younger Masters nor vice versa. Phew! How complicated can this be! lol. When you start trying to phrase this it is not as easy as it first seems! So...any more suggestions for better accuracy regarding Master Age Bands or Vets starting age? Think on! Especialy if you are planning on taking on wifey!

Seems you have missed a bit actually. Your suggested M35 is a band of one year then? I think my suggested qualification is appropriate for Masters and wifey's is for Vets.

PP

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:11 pm

Sprry but I have to disagree, if your 12th birthday is 2 January 2009, you are J12, BUT then your 14th birthday is also after 1st January this year (ir is 2011!) so you CAN be the best under 14 as well as the best under 12, this applies up to J18, as 2nd Jan 2015 is afetr 1st Jan 2009.

For ease of ranking one might split the age groups, but the above still holds. Indeed look at the J14 and J12 leagues, you will find Paul Sunderland J12 Stafford & Stone CC apperars high in BOTH.

When you are a 63 year old still beating all the under 40s you can still say ypu are teh best over 35 paddler in the country, (and over 40, over 45, over 50, over 55, and over 60. . )

No slight was intended against your beautiful wife or her handle on the British language. I am not in a position to cast the first stione (see my signature for my get out.)

I am not suggesting M35 is for one year only, my 35th birthday was before 31st December in the year concerned. In favt it was in the previous millenium!

So lets forget birthdays (I am trying to)
M35 - aged having a 35th birthday on or before 31st December in the year

Just trying to keep it as simple as possible, with as little onfusion as possible, - I get confused parents looking at juniors too often for pleasure. So lets try:
M35 - aged 35 or older on 31st December in the current year
M40 - aged 40 or older on 31st December in the current year
M45 - aged 45 or older on 31st December in the current year

If you do not like this, and want to split the age groups as not done in Junior, just take out 1st January in your words as it adds nothing but the capability to be misunderstood.
M35 - 35th to 39th Birthday in the current year.
M40 - 40th to 45th Birthday in the current year.
(repeating myself I do not think this is the right approach but that juniors get it right, under age for junior, older than for masters.)

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:17 pm

lol...Im enjoying your comments here and chortling aloud lol....

But I think you are making hard work of what has already been suggested and there is no misunderstanding in that at all. Removing the 1st January is ok but by leaving it in, as a datum, its clear that the current year is from a specific date and not some seasonal date (eg like the tax year in April). My proposal for Masters was to allow fair and reasonable competition within specific age bands. This excludes those above or below it. Your comments about the way juniors are viewed is understood but I am not going to start suggesting someone should tinker with the wording of that! At the time this is proposed to Committee, Im sure the wording will be properly considered but I personally feel it would be wrong to allow any other age, other than those within the specific band, to be allowed. For this reason, I do not concur with the "or older" reference in the qualification.

No slight taken on wifey (she liked the beautiful part by the way!) or her English skills of course. She is right anyway

Clear, concise and specific. I should know. She is the same when I am in the wrong!!!

PP

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Fri May 01, 2009 9:18 am

Clear, concise and specific. I should know. She is the same when I am in the wrong!!!

So Love Mae is always clear concise and specific then?

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Fri May 01, 2009 9:00 pm

A lot of the time yes!! lol

oldandslow · Post by **oldandslow** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:36 pm

Do we have any rankings in the master's league yet Peter, or has it died a death because the old giits have all forgotten the dob's?!