publication of start lists

[Sven]

Wow

Might have to seriously think about giving up the sport as it appears to cause so much pain for so many people - I'm not being flippant

I think organisers probably underestimate how grateful most paddlers are for the work they put in - perhaps they (paddlers) should articulate it more. I know a few whinge and complain but really I do think it is the vocal minority. the appreciative majority are probably too quiet.

It also works the other way around - a FEW organisers and officials can be pretty "negative" towards paddlers - which in turn could give a lot of paddlers the impression that all organisers and officials are like that - and we know they are not.

Also sometimes it is quite difficult to be cheery while at the same time concentrate and stay focused on a race

[BaldockBabe]

I think the issue is that an organisers job is very time consuming and pretty hard work in the lead up to the event. Each organiser approaches it in different ways, some do things as they go along (and hence are able to produce start lists) whereas others like to take the hit in one go (and hence not able to produce early start lists - for me last year and even with the help of my husband who runs the timing team, with an event of 200 paddlers on two days, it took over 6 hours to imput the data, sort cheques etc).

The general consensus that I get from this thread is that those who can will and those who can't wont.

Currently therefore there is no issue as the rules do not force the issue one way or another. The issue would arise if organisers were being forced to work in one way or another. If a motion went in requiring organisers to produce lists that far in advance then:

1. For those in the lower divisions it would be a waste of time anyway; and
2. In all divisions it would force the organisers to work in a particular way which they may not have time for or the inclination to do so.

I don't think anyone disagrees that it is a good idea, they are just pointing out why it wouldn't be fair to force it on the organisers.

The more posts like this come up the more I think we really do need to work out how on-line entries could work. I have been doing them for running events over the last year and it does make sense. I guess the issue is that a) if the running event doesn't happen they usually keep the fees but as they are around £15 it is not as much of a loss (the query here was always how could money be re-paid) or re-scheduled (which is probably easier for a running event) and b) the fees that would be payable to paypal/ the on-line payment system. Whether there is central admin of this (which means work for one person) or organiser based admin (like Northampton CC do)... At P/1 events entry cards are redundant anyway, but they are used at 2/3/4 events. Perhaps a trial system could set up for P/1 events and then we could look at how it could be rolled out???

[Dee]

Wow

Might have to seriously think about giving up the sport as it appears to cause so much pain for so many people - I'm not being flippant

I think organisers probably underestimate how grateful most paddlers are for the work they put in - perhaps they (paddlers) should articulate it more. I know a few whinge and complain but really I do think it is the vocal minority. the appreciative majority are probably too quiet.

It also works the other way around - a FEW organisers and officials can be pretty "negative" towards paddlers - which in turn could give a lot of paddlers the impression that all organisers and officials are like that - and we know they are not.

Also sometimes it is quite difficult to be cheery while at the same time concentrate and stay focused on a race

Having run the SSCC div 1/2 for many years I refused to continue this year. A significant part of this was down to the constant complaints from that very vocal minority (eg made decision to cancel too early one year, 6 years earlier the complaint was too late cancelling; too much mud; course too hard; course too easy; not accepting an entry on the day (closing date was well publicised but paddler complained at me for 15mins); turning down entries because entry limit reached; requiring payment with entries; cashing a cheque when a paddler emailed to cancel on Saturday morning; allowing paddlers to go out of turn; not allowing paddlers to go out of turn)

The result of the constant griping from those few paddlers was that by last year, although I was still trying to be as helpful and fair to all, I was becoming very impatient with all paddlers and starting to quote the rule book as the first resort which, let's face it, does seem a bit officious. It was clearly time to call it a day.

The thing is that the more rules you create about the organiser having to do certain things by a given date the harder you make the job, and the more organisers will just decide that they've had enough. It was bad enough when the rules changed to require posting of results within 3(?) days of the event (in the days when we used cards it used to take quite some time to do the card vs computer check).

Unlike baldock babe, I used to record entries as they were received and did post received entries via the chatter boards as I went along, but I still used to get a significant number of emails from paddlers not checking the boards. (The plus for me was that I could redirect them to the boards which saved me having to look them up especially where vague info was provided).

But I still agree that organisers should not be required to do this, by all means put in processes to make it easier for them to do so, but don't force it. Don't make it harder to run events. Events are run FOR paddlers, but you still NEED organisers or they won't happen.

[Mummsie]

One reason for not posting on the Chat line is there are a very limited number of people who actually use it!

[djberriman]

My point was that it would be easy to get simply slalom to upload a list without Nick's help