Page 2 of 3
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:44 pm
by Terryg
"How about rationalising both Vets and Masters"
This keeps raising it's head, the two classes have different rules. The Masters don't want to be Vets, and the Vets don't want to be Masters.
A 'Grumpy league', open to all ages and sexes would probably have some support 
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:46 pm
by Terryg
Canadian PAddler wrote:Vets are those clever enough to realise that they can opt out of the divisions and play with themsleves (OO ER MISSUS) with out risk of demotion
or promotion
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 4:19 pm
by djberriman
Perhaps the answer is to allow any paddler in any division to declare themselves non ranking. Thus they can paddle in that division are shown in the results but gain no point, no prizes, can not be demoted/promoted and are not taken into account when calculating points/promotions etc. It shouldn't be hard for the points/results system to cope with NR, I believe Ken's simply slalom software already does.
It would probably need some rules like you can only declare yourself non ranking on gaining promotion to the next division (thus staying in the current one for the remainder of the season for whatever reason). Otherwise you must declare it at the start of the year when applying for your bib to stop people doing it at the end of the season to avoid demotion and similarly having to opt back in at the start when applying for your bib if you want to try and compete again and gain promotion/face demotion.
As it currently stands I guess the Vets rule probably could be classed as age discrimination (allowing a paddler to remain in a certain division based on age).
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 7:36 pm
by kendall chew
I thought Masters were old blokes (Gals) like me who were too old to do anything really impressive but still believed that they could show how the yung un's how it is done by competing in main ranking events. For those of you not old enough to understand the Masters league system it goes like this: I eye up the opposition which consists of a plethora of J12, J13, J14, a few late start J16's and five or six ole gits who have no chance against the likes of me. I enter, race and, too my chagrin discover that everyone below the age of 45 has beaten me by several seconds, except the new lad who has just come up to Div 2 after a very successful season in Div 3. I now consider this to have been a major victory, go back to the score board and look to see which of the old buggers I have beaten. It's simple and balanced and, provides much competitive banter both on and off the startline. The advantage we masters have over the Juniors is that we really are cool and we can legally drink beer. You may want to get an alternative view from a Vet!
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 7:43 pm
by Terryg
kendall chew wrote:The advantage we masters have over the Juniors is that we really are cool and we can legally drink beer. You may want to get an alternative view from a Vet!
We're cool and drink beer too! (A Vet).
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 8:09 pm
by kendall chew
Perhaps, but do you have a comparable competitive strategy to our tried and trusted technique?
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 10:19 pm
by General Flangecustard
I totally agree with Kendal about hoe the masters system works.
Masters rule!
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 10:48 pm
by AndrewG
Loving the insight into the world of Masters/Vets Divisional Competition........but anyone got any views on the format/running/venue/prizes for the British U16 Juniors and Vet Champs and what might be done to improve attendance at this annual event (as per OP)?
Or is it something that we leave as it is and alow to become a minor sideshow that is only attended by a few?
Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 6:56 am
by kendall chew
Possibly, the way to run this event might be along the lines of the Interclubs - it is well attended, promoted well, has a carnival atmosphere and all divisions turn up. It certainly is not Div 1/ Prem water, so what makes it so compulsive? I might suggest club loyalty and prestige, a darn good atmosphere and beer in the evening( but only for the cool masters!). Perhaps this is the way it should go to make it more attractive to a wider audience. Prem and upper Div 1 paddlers are unlikely to attend events on lesser water because other prem/ div 1 paddlers do not attend- it is a self defeating spiral
Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 10:53 am
by Flyhigh3
or alongside a Pan Celtic event and demote English champs? As the English champs was with the PCC at HPP - but Llandysul should have been the British champs and theoretically above the English champs?
Guess goes back to what is the objective...
Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 9:29 pm
by oldschool
put it somewhere central!
Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 6:15 pm
by Neil H
All interesting stuff and OP held some salient points. Reading through the post are most people agreeing that it needs a rethink?
It'd be a shame to be a year down the line, attendance stagnant or decreasing along with credibility.
Obvious question is how can change be actioned quickly to save it.
Seems to me that Olympic year would be a good chance to draw positive attention to the sport and if this was handled well and in the right place, with the right publicity it would be beneficial all round.
It could certainly showcase some of the upcoming talent.
Thoughts?
Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 8:48 pm
by Canadian Paddler
Martin Setchell has been looking at this for the slalom committee, might be worth making sure he knows your thoughts...
Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 9:37 pm
by Neil H
Cheers
but do a lot of volunteer work within the world of slalom