Recreation vs Slalom

oldandslow · Post by **oldandslow** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:05 am

It’s a balmy summer evening and the open boats, play boats and novices are out in force to disrupt yet another slalom training session on the river.
“Ooops sorry!” they wobble as you narrowly miss them on the up.
“We’ve paid our BCU membership!” they cry, as they surf the wave in the middle of the S gate.
A polite plea, “Would you mind playing on the bottom wave?”
Gets an abusive retort, “We’ve got access here too!”
This is true! But why have they got access? Because the club spent and continue to spend hours in negotiation with the landowner. The club members manage to work together to plan water time and space amongst the different disciplines; so why can’t all the visiting paddlers. Just because they have travelled from another club suddenly gives them permission to forget the rules of civilised behaviour. It can’t be difficult to spot a group of slalom paddlers in training and get out of the way. It’s no wonder slalom paddlers have a bad name in the canoeing world, but can you blame us for being snooty and aggressive when no one seems to understand or care what we are doing?
So the reason for this rant? Does any other club have this problem and have you been able to find a solution?

Spiderman · Post by **Spiderman** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:41 pm

VKC is involved in all discilipnes of kayaking and canoeing - even sea canoeing and we are as far from the sea as you can get! You name it and we do it. But we have perfect harmony! When I take a slalom session on Duckmill Sluices, the others in the Club do not even think to go there - no more than I would nip down there with a few slalom paddlers when the playboaters are cartwheeling, tail looping etc. Polo takes place in the flatwater gate training area when slalom does not and vice versa. We agree times and days and generally stick to it. And it works well

Our disharmony is not with other canoe/kayak disciplines but with the rowing club with which we share premises

You use the term "snooty"...maaaan you got no idea what that means until you try and share the same 50m of river as a rower! I respectfully suggest that if you have one venue for use by different disciplines that you do as we do and agree to use it at different times. I am always jibing the other disciplines but it is essentially in jest - because everyone knows that slalom is clearly the suprerior one

Ohh but actually, I went out in a racing K1 a couple of weeks ago. Easy I thought. Been paddling all my life, there can't be much to it. Ha! My jiggling jelly impersonation did not really leave me all session and apart from the catch, the stroke and the exit, my paddling was great! I am going to do more of that as its a real challenge and so much more difficult that it first seems. Instant respect to all racers!

PP

oldschool · Post by **oldschool** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:55 pm

come on if your upstream you have right of way! go through someone messing about on a wave once and they are seldom there the next time!!

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:03 am

To be honest I am not sure that there is a solution. As a group kayakers generally are arguing for full access to rivers for all (of course, if you work for the BCU it seems that you are still fighting for access agreements) so it would be difficult for us as a sub-group to then argue that we should have free access for all except when we want to practice slalom.

As with HPP and other venues where there is a clash it is up to all parties to be respectful of the other. Playboaters should move out of the way for any paddler upstream but slalomists should be reasonable and leave some gaps for the playboaters to play.
As a group paddlers really need to be united as we have enough problems with rowers and fishermen as it is.

Nicky · Post by **Nicky** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:25 am

Try inviting paddlers from the other club to your slalom session and let them know that there's gonna be quite a few people in slalom boats there. That should be enough to encouragethem to come try it, of avoid the slot you are trying to establish...

At harefield when playboaters used to turn up, we'd just agree not to use certain gates and they would stick to certain areas too. That seemed to work!

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:57 pm

This has been an on-going problem at HPP for years, simple answer try and work together.

However as Tuesday night seems to be a high percentage of slalom coaching perhaps there could be exclusive use for slalom one night a week and a free for all other nights? Just a thought?

Munchkin · Post by **Munchkin** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:10 am

Wednesday and Thursday nights are also a high percentage of slalomists at HPP (Greenstar, Stafford and Stone and HPP all train on those nights)...

I think we just have to learn to share (hey, I even managed to share the same spot on the Muncher as a playboater the other week. As he sat on my deck and I held his trying to stay upright we even managed to have a conversation!).

80-1219672301 · Post by **80-1219672301** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:24 am

That sounds great! - I love the image of the playboater and slalomer holding each other upright in the muncher - you go girl!

At Tully we have to negotiate rafters and now the companies providing water rescue training for the fire brigade. It's a little off putting for the paddler when they suddenly find a body going past them and a couple of burly but unpracticed fire fighters trying to catch it in the middle of a gate!

With "free to roam" anyone can use the river - but we just wish they'd leave the gates alone - sigh! We too pay the landowner rent for having the stantions on their land.

The rescue guys have been known to try and move the gates before a competition - gulp!

Still we all manage to rub along pretty much ok

Seedy Paddler · Post by **Seedy Paddler** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:23 pm

Couple of corrections to Mum:
1/ The lease at Tully allows for development on site and includes right of wayleave. It excludes Riparian Rights and they have retained right of wayleave over leased property to support the riparian activities. Development on site has included the stanchions but also the control hut and the installation of electrics to the control hut. We also used to have a bridge further up on the South bank near Stuarts pad but that was damaged and removed. The leasehold of the site to protect future compatitive use was also a condition behind SportScoptland support and the development of the campsite in the Old Station yard. So a bit more than rent to have some stanchions ???

2/ The Land Reform (Scotland) Act allows for responsible access to the countryside and waters of Scotland. There are options to allow multiple usage by differing and conflicting interests. Slalom @ Tully has been based on dialogue and "gentlemens' agreements", however if there are significant problems we can revert to the local LAF and request they support development and policing of a "Management Plan" which could use time zoning or other options to ensure segragation of conflicting participants. Similarly for the major events we can go to court and seek a Court Order to temporarily suspend other activities (the option used by anglers for the recent World Fly Fishing Champs). So everyone has the same access rights but there are options to control access and prevent issues arising :;):

We also need to sometimes look from a different perspective, as many rafters and other users will state - "wish they would get those gates out of the current - save getting in my road!"
I remember a previous occasion having taken a Club trip down the Tay, young slalomists started ranting (from the bank) at our Club kids to get off the water and leave the breakouts as they might hit/move the slalom gates. They went amazingly quiet and headed away back to the campsite when I paddled over to enquire what their problem was?

80-1219672301 · Post by **80-1219672301** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:29 pm

Sorry for the short hand and I stand corrected - All I wanted to say was we all manage to rub along fine despite the odd incident and I was mainly referring to non- boaters - that is commercial companies like the water rescue trainers wanting to move gates

No more posting now - bye

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:48 am

Hmm not too pleased with the attitude of a playboater/coach at HPP tonight who sat in the gate lines most of the night and screwing up peoples runs and when asked why he was sat there with a pupil who was obviously paying for the coaches time, replied "I am coaching so get on with it" the fact that the pupil was not up to the standard to actually be on the course bore no relevance to what he was doing, having watched the pupil paddling on the flat water first, the 'coach' would have spent better time improving the pupils forward and other paddling techniques first before taking him on WW,,,, grrrr rant over

oldandslow · Post by **oldandslow** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:12 pm

Result! What an easy solution! Signs at the get in explaining that slalom training was happening and everyone was welcome to join in on the set course or paddle straight through... hey presto they all paddled straight through. Fluke I'm sure... but if one of them was you ... THANK YOU! A great session - apart from evil courses set by div 1 paddlers!