ACM motion 6.10 Section judges at Junior/Vet champ - 'Just for Fun, to see what people think'

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:05 am

It is felt that as the British Junior and Veteran chamionships is a prestigious race it should also be judged using section judges and gate judges. In exceptional circumstances where there are insufficient appointed section judges each gate must be judged by two people one acting as section judge and one as gate judge

66-1146487544 · Post by **66-1146487544** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:55 pm

See below

66-1146487544 · Post by **66-1146487544** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:58 pm

If this event is so prestigious then why is it always held on what can be classed as Div 3 water at best - nearly all the main prize winners in this and previous years are in Div 1/Prem and regularly paddle on Holme Pierrepont/Tryweryn/Grandtully - if this truly is a major event in the Slalom calendar then it needs to be run alongside one of next years Div 1 events as a bare minimum.

This would save on travel & accommodation costs as well, for both competitors and section judges.

andy n · Post by **andy n** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:39 pm

Of course the winners are in Prem or Div 1, they are the best paddlers in the race! What should be of concern is the number of top paddlers that do not compete at the National Junior/Veteran Champs because it is run on Div 3 standard water.

The u14 Champs does normally attract most of the top paddlers but same cannot be said of u16, u18 or Vets.

Could the event be split? U14's on easier water and u16/u18 and Vets on at least Div 1 standard water?

ElaineF · Post by **ElaineF** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:20 pm

Fully agree with Boat Sherpa that as a prestigious race the venue (with all due respect to all involved at Cardington) should be at least of a good Division 1 standard.

I know too of at least one J14 who chose not to compete this year soley because of the venue .. she'd vote for the race to be held down the Falls in Llangollen or on the International Course on the Tryweryn and I know she's not the only J14 who would share this view.

Anne · Post by **Anne** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:36 am

That would then restrict it to the elite few - look how many late entries we got from the Div 1 K1W once they new Llangollen didn't involve going down the fall - the entry doubled!

What about all those up and coming less experienced youngsters?? Good paddlers can paddler well on any course, the less experiences can't - do you want to put off those new competitors? The higher ranked juniors want to get off their high horse and think about others!

Any club can apply to host the J and Vet champs the only have to apply to Jim.

66-1146487544 · Post by **66-1146487544** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:53 pm

Anne, I think the Slalom Committee needs to decide what it wants to achieve from the J & Vet champs.

Does it want a prestigious event or not? Does it want to attract the best paddlers of all ages to compete on water that is considered respectable for a National championship.

If you are happy for no one to compete at this event in the future other than the 'less experienced' paddler then carry on - let any old club choose to host it - maybe we could even go as far as holding it on flat water with a couple of gates.

If this really is a prestigious event then make it one. Nominate someone to take charge of it. You could even consider opening it up to international juniors/cadets as guests if it was held at a suitable venue.

Maybe then the 'less experienced' paddler would have something to aim at and be justifiably proud when they finally win a trophy, knowing that they have truly beaten all other GB juniors in their age group.

Rant over.

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:15 am

Well said Boat Sherpa.

The vets event, as originally porposed by Pete, was an opportunity for all vets in the country to compete together, and had a handicap to give everyone a chance of winning. The event has moved away from this, and is suffering from an identity crisis, is it the best paddler in the country for their age or just the best over the veterans age limit? It may be that vets champs have a different aim to the juniors, so should they be held at the same time?

The juniors also is wavering, if we want a prestigous event to identify the best juniors by age in the country, if so we need water that will stretch yhe top juniors, and accept that this will exclude many of those at a lower level from even competing.

John Sturgess · Post by **John Sturgess** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:20 pm

The only reason why it will exclude the lower ranked junior paddlers is because we do not allow them to race on difficult water (or at least not without judging) until too late in their careers. Open entry to all races would allow them to race on rough water as soon as their coaches felt it appropriate for their progress: which for the better ones would probably be by September in their first season (I think I am right in saying that of the 12 Stafford and Stone J12 paddlers who began the season in Div 4, 10 are now in Div 2: some well up towards the top)

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:21 pm

It was pointed out that this motion had two effects, the first to introduce section judges to the Junior/Vet champs, the second to require at least two judges on each position for Div1/Prem, even if there are not enough section judges.

After lost of debate about what the Junior champs were aimed at, why the top U18s do not go, and what why, the motion was split into two parst and both were adopted.

So there will eb section judges (or at least two judges per gate) at teh Junior and Vet champs, AND if you go to an event that is not popular with section judges the organiser will be looking for two judges per gate, so is more likely to be asking paddlers to judge. Moral Be nice to section judges, they sit there all day, and let you get on with paddling :p