Compulsory Airbags - Choose the one which applies

Sizer · Post by **Sizer** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:10 pm

Yep, small kids can sit at the end of a race, but there is no way you can expect them to effectively rescue a water laden boat, or person 2/3/4 stone heavy then them.

frontman2 · Post by **frontman2** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:13 am

[quote]Slalom, as you indicate, takes place in relatively protected conditions where the risk to paddler and boat of a swim are minimal compared to river running.

I stand by this regardless of whether the organiser has put "proper" safety precautions in place. It would seem to me that there is a degree safety obsessiveness developing here.

No idea what the volume of a slalom boat is, but they are lighter than playboats to start with, and in the case of most C1/C2s, packed full of foam (seats, knee pads/braces , plus bouyancy).

On the issue of youngsters rescuing boats/paddlers at the end of the course, what's changed in the last few years that's stopped them being able to do it? Seemed to manage OK in the past.

r_riddell@uwclub.net · Post by **r_riddell@uwclub.net** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:34 am

Hey im Rury's friend Sara

Airbags should not be compusary but i suggest you do use them cause they not only stop your boat from sinking but also protect it when it hits rocks. x

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 11:30 pm

As canoeing in all forms is an "Assumed Risk Sport" there is an enhanced "Duty of Care".

Those of you having any dealings with Health & Safety will understand the meaning of this.

The paddlers now in the higher div's have become a lot younger than they used to be, thanks to WCS & WCP but most of these younger paddlers have been taught slalom only and do not know the basics of rescueing a paddler or boat.

Sometime ago early in the season someone from the Slalom committee (mentioning no names) stated on the forum, that this year they were going to look at the safety issue's surrounding slalom event's, all I have seen this year seems to be the safety issues becoming worse and no one policing what they said they would do!

Last year we had a purge on weighing boats at every Div1/Prem event this year how many times have boats been weighed?

Whilst we are all aware and respect that everyone in the sport does it voluntarily, we need to set standards and abide by them.

Will 2006 be any differant?

Train2Win · Post by **Train2Win** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:10 am

Why annoy Prem paddlers by making them put airbags in their boats....for heaven's sake how many times has a Premier paddler swam and damaged their boat/injured a rescuer at a comp?

Why bring in more rules and regulations? There is no need to change the rules so why change them. Most girls in div 1. and below as well as one or 2 in prem have airbags, probably because the think they might possibly swim. But if ur a K1 man and u know for a fact that the chances of u swimming at a UK comp are almost non-existant why add another thing to annoy them?

We've already had helmet regulations, which have seemed to accomplish not a lot. Now airbags?? How about u ask the paddlers at the Notts prem what they think, I think you get the v's as an indication of how compulsory airbags are regarded by those at the top end of the sport.

Kev.S · Post by **Kev.S** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:20 am

It could make a sensible argument about the air bags and who should use them and where, but as for your comments about helmets, you obviously have a total disregard for personal safety.

Only a fool would consider not wearing one, especially on the likes of the tryweryn.

Geebs · Post by **Geebs** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:21 am

We obviously have forgotten the last prem race at HPP when 2 prem ladies swam???

raeofsunshine · Post by **raeofsunshine** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:00 pm

As an assumed risk sport there is no enhanced duty of care, it is as the title suggests, the law does not impose 'the good samaritan on us' and as such it is up to the individual to decide what to do in a rescue situation. If you think you may swim then give the rescuer an extra helping hand with airbags. We all swim and i mean all at some point or other!!
But it is an individuals decision and should be left as so. However i do think there is something to be said for organisers of an event providing trained/ qualified safety- we did it at the tees race!! Therefore removing the question of who should rescue what and ensuring that smaller, younger paddlers are not putting themselves at risk.

Anne · Post by **Anne** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:28 am

Can I remind you all we have the Annual Consultative Meeting at the end of November, remember if your club is registered with an interest in Slalom and has any issues they can put them forward, seconded by another club, for discussion. They will then be voted on by the members present. Whether it be compulsary airbags below a ceriaun level or be ot weight of boat including air bag.

Make sure your club comes along and uses it's vote in the interest of the future of slalom on all issues.

Canadian Paddler · Post by **Canadian Paddler** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:41 am

Shows how busy Anne has been, chairing the committee, running the slaloms this weekend and last, etc. and (possible neglecting) some kind of home life?

The new regulations (and old constitution) allow a single club to propose and second an order of business.

Any item for the Agenda at the Annual Consultative Meeting shall be submitted to the Secretary of the Committee in writing proposed and seconded by a registered club and must reach the Secretary 21 days prior to the Annual Consultative Meeting. Other items may be discussed at the discretion of the Chair

Or at least that's how I read it, if the intention had been two clubs then perhaps 'proposed and seconded by seperate registered clubs'
or even just "proposed and seconded by registered clubs" would have been clearer.
No matter which the meeting is run under, I trust that motions duely discussed within a club and proposed and seconded by one club will be accepted. If not can someone let us know so that we can ensure that motions are duely placed. Thanks

Anne · Post by **Anne** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:37 am

I have just read the old consitiution and you are correct it is worded in such a way, as are the new regulations leading to being interpereted as one club can nominate and second! But that has never to my knowledge been the case and has it ever been questioned??? The aim is obviously for different clubs to nominate and second and that is how I would hope this would be. If however we receive a motion nominated and seconded by one club I do feel it would be appropriate to give the club the oppertunity to find an another club to second or put it to the floor at the ACM as to whether we accept the motion. I will put this to all committee members for clarification.

Frequent Fish · Post by **Frequent Fish** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:37 pm

Do not say you never swim. Saturday saw someone swim on 1st run, and win Div1 K1M on second run!

Perhaps he should have had an air bag he could breath from, then he could have stayed in more than the minute he was under water!

Still think airbags should be up to the paddlers discretion, and rescuing a boat without airbags is to the rescuers discretion! ???

Frequent Fish · Post by **Frequent Fish** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:37 pm

Do not say you never swim. Saturday saw someone swim on 1st run, and win Div1 K1M on second run!

Perhaps he should have had an air bag he could breath from, then he could have stayed in more than the minute he was under water!

Still think airbags should be up to the paddlers discretion, and rescuing a boat without airbags is to the rescuers discretion! ???

jke · Post by **jke** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:54 pm

Guest wrote:Yep, small kids can sit at the end of a race, but there is no way you can expect them to effectively rescue a water laden boat, or person 2/3/4 stone heavy then them.

Sorry to drag this out. At our slalom it's flat at the finish. We still expect the two finishers to stay there. That's OK. But below the rough bit, particularly if the water's up, we have a rescue boat (who is capable of rescuing).

jke · Post by **jke** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:01 pm

I've just bought a boat where it's v difficult to get out of due to long legs and foam block. So I'm about to remove the foam. Maybe I'll put an air bag in the front instead, but where? Or maybe a milk carton. Am I more concerned about my boat being rescued or me getting out?

All hypothetical because I never swim!