Can I just clarify that the proposal is not just with the Shepperton system in mind (though I do have a vested interest in that system ); any system taking on line payments via credit/debit cards will have a cost!
Also this proposal is not about designing how a system does/should/will work; it is purely about making any such system viable.
Having said that the following responses are for the "Shepperton" system.
boatmum wrote:
I think the online entry fee system is the way to go. Given the Shepperton system has been successful this year - would it not be better for the slalom committee to adopt the system itself and roll it out to all clubs? Payment for the system can then be taken in the same way judges and timing fees are paid - amounts to be agreed. That way clubs who may not be as tech confident as say Shepperton can rely on a central system without having to reinvent the wheel (as Dee suggests) .
You may be misunderstanding something here? A bit of background:
- The system we used at Shepperton has been/is being developed by myself and my son as such we own, run and maintain the code (though if we got fed up with it we would happily pass it on); it is designed to be central and I could add another race tomorrow if desired. (if you go to the website http://www.canoeslalomentries.co.uk you will see that there is now a (very short!) list of events, other events could easily be on this list).
- I don't believe the committee as a whole has the capability (or desire?) to take on running and maintaining the system (though, of course, some committee members may have the appropriate skill set - I don't know).
- Setting up a club/competition currently involves me manually adding some basic data to the database. By the end of this year, there will be onscreen pages to set up new competitions, which could probably be used by a committee member if appropriate, but entering this data is not the same thing as running the system.
- There is a series of pages that enable the organiser to tweek parameters (eg closing dates) if required, but which will default to standard rules in any case (based on division).
- There is a separate set of pages (some screen shots at https://www.dropbox.com/s/rk4tumdfgpg86 ... .docx?dl=0) that allow the organiser to add postal entries (so that they appear on line), cancel entries, accept paddlers from the waiting list etc. These pages don't require huge technical skill, but a moderate capability with a mouse and keyboard. An organiser who has never used a computer will struggle but anyone who has used a spreadsheet, say, to keep a record of entries should be perfectly capable.
- If the organiser can't cope with a certain amount of end user computer use then the whole concept of online entries will probably fail, as someone needs to manage cancellations, waiting list entries etc. However, the processes involved do not require technical expertise, just access to the internet and the ability to click the appropriate button
jke wrote:
The card reader was supposed to show that as a club we tried to keep it simple and not distinguish between card payers (who cost us) and cash/cheque (who don’t). You could argue that the cash payers lose out but there are a whole lot of winners and losers in a club for example those who need to use club equipment and those who don’t. But the overriding factor is in supporting the club. Or in this case a simple online entry fee system.
Thanks, me just missing the connection
jke wrote:
My thinking was that the overheads would be set the same value or percentage across the board.
Would that it were that simple.
jke wrote:To me your op figures looked as though they might end up different for each event. What I was trying to say was keep it simple.
In a sense, we
were trying to keep it simple
The problem is that the transaction charges to us have a fixed element and then a percentage, this is how it is. So if the entry fees are lower then then the overall percentage is a higher amount because of the fixed fee element, hence our need to have a slightly higher transaction fee percentage at lower divisions. We certainly can't do it as a fixed fee because the cost to us is not fixed.
Other credit card processors will haven different fee structures, and, as I said earlier, this was a more general proposal than just that for Shepperton, so we thought it would be simplest to use a percentage based on division to set a maximum fee.
One option would be to just not have a set maximum and just allow clubs/systems to charge any appropriate fee, but I thought, maybe wrongly that the ACM would be reluctant to sign up to a rule that effectively gave a system operator carte blanche to charge as much as they wanted.
jke wrote:
I assume the report from the payment system would not be broken down by club or event. And therefore not distributable.
boatmum wrote:
The advantage here might be that if the entry fees are paid centrally - the necessary costs can be dealt with centrally and the club is reimbursed a net figure after levies, judges and timing team fees and electronic fees etc
I have described the system payment mechanism in detail elsewhere so won't go into detail here. But briefly........ The paddler pays by credit/debit card, the fees are stripped out and the money goes into a separate holding account for the club where it remains until 5 days after the event after which it can be transferred directly to the club's bank account**. The reason for the delay is :
- Most club treasurers (from what I've heard) would rather see one or two payments rather than lots of small ones going in (easier to do the accounts).
- If we transferred early and then had to process a cancellation, this would cause all sorts of headaches (particularly if it was for the whole event!) with the need to retrieve money from the club account.
- Stripe (the company we use to actually take payment and process the card) require a 5 day delay, so it is easier to require a wait of 5 days after the event (though in theory we could make it 5 days after last transaction as long as event has happened, just a bit more complex to code!
The organiser can see on line exactly who has paid what for their event (for online payments), so they are very much by event and appropriately distributable.
**We could, if so desired, pay all the money (post transaction fee) into a slalom committee account; they could then take out the levies/judging fees and transfer the remaining amount to the club but, as djberriman says, this will leave the club out of pocket for longer.
Kit Washer, Entry Clerk, Chauffeur, Reluctant Organiser, Online Entry Advocate .....
Anything I post under this user is my personal opinion; I am not posting as a member of the Slalom Committee!